"I went to a place to eat. It said 'breakfast at any time.' So I ordered french toast during the Renaissance". --Steven Wright ... If you are a devotee of time travel, check out this song...

Wednesday, May 23, 2007

Lost Season 3 Finale: The Flashforwards

Well, I sorta called it, in last week's review -

I think we've seen the last of the flashbacks, or close to it. I predict some of our castaways will get off the island - certainly Claire and her baby - and others (like Charlie) will remain. And next year, rather than the flashbacks (which were getting a little boring, anyway), we'll see the adventures of the remaining castaways and The Others and who knows who else on the island, and the attempt of those off the island to save them. The off-island story, in the present, will replace the flashbacks.


But it was still a shocker, a satisfying shocker, to see it tonight. I realized as soon as I saw Jack in the first "flashback" that this wasn't a flashback - there was something in the way Jack looked, something in the lack of ties to the past, especially as the "flashbacks" progressed on the show, that made me think this wasn't in the past but in the future. And Jack's anguish in this near-future Los Angeles was clearly about something that had happened in the past - on the accursed island, which he was now clear of, physically, but certainly not emotionally....

References to Jack's father were nice touches to throw us off, but it was also clear that Jack's father was no longer alive. And Jack was a fish out of water - or a man off the island - which, for some reason, he felt guilty about - to the point of wanting to take his own life.

There were other superb touches on tonight's Season 3 finale. Locke coming back - we all knew he wasn't dead - and almost killing Jack, but not being able to. Walt appeared (not Michael, as I had predicted) - but was he really on the island, or just one of its visions, which came at a crucial time to Locke?

Ben had a really crucial, excellent role tonight, too - the inveterate liar indeed was lying when he claimed to have ordered Sayid, Jin, and Bernard's deaths - and indicating, when Jack and Ben heard the shots on the phone that the three had been killed - but Ben seemed to be telling the truth about Naomi. The ancient paradox of the liar - if everything he says is a lie, what does it mean when he admits that he lies? You can never believe what he says, and sometimes that leads to dangerous, deadly results.

Were the people Naomi was bringing to island bad, as Ben insisted to Jack, and Jack rejected? Well, she was certainly lying about working for Penny.... And Jack does feel horribly guilty about something that happened when he left the island...

Penny ... Charlie talks to her on the television screen, before he drowns in that chamber. I was wrong about that, too. I'm still hoping that somehow, Charlie can live - maybe time travel can save him. He was one of my favorite characters on Lost.

Which will indeed be different, from now on. No more just trying to get off the island, fighting with The Others and whoever else. No more flashbacks - though I don't see them stopping completely - we still need to sort out those inexplicable coincidences*.

But the series will clearly have a new fulcrum point from now on: A pivotal switch from seeing what the castaways were like, what made them tick, before they got to the island ... to seeing the impact of their decisions made on the island, to leave the island, for at least some of the castaways. A daringly refreshing resetting of the stage....

How can Jack get back and save who ever is left on the island? And though Kate, also off the island now, doesn't seem inclined to help him, there's little doubt that sooner or later she will.

A superb finale - which also had a nice spot for Hurley as hero - and opens up as many new questions as it answers. I'm as happy and intrigued with Lost now as I was at the end of the first season.

*I still think the inexplicable coincidences in the flashbacks hold the key to what's happening on Lost - Keys To What's Really Going On. It will be interesting to see how these coincidences in the past play out in the flashforwards of some of the characters.

Useful links:

Lost New Questions: 1. How Far in the Future?

Lost New Questions: 2. Who's In the Coffin?

Lost New Questions: 3. Who's Waiting for Kate?

Lost New Questions: 4. Who Is Naomi's Boss?

Lost New Questions: 5. Is Mikhail Immortal?

Lost New Questions: 6: What Constitutes Reliable Evidence?

Lost New Questions: 7. Are the Flashforwards Desmond's Flashes?


And see also Lost's Back Full Paradoxical Blast: Season 4 Episode 1

Lost and Alias: Now Something Else in Common

Lost, Heroes, and The Sopranos: A Comparison of Real and Future Endings

The Basic Writings of Bertrand Russell for more on the paradox of the liar...

8-minute podcast of this review at Levinson news clips









52 comments:

Anonymous said...

Do we really know for sure that Jack's dad is dead? There was no body in the coffin when Jack opened it up on the island, right?

Paul Levinson said...

Well, Jack saw his father's dead body in the body-bag that went on Oceanic 815. But it did seem to go missing in the crash - not all that surprising - and I suppose anything is possible on the island...

Unknown said...

I absolutely loved the finale. I had spoiled myself beforehand but that final scene with Jack and Kate was not only daring, shocking but also heartbreaking. Only 10 months to go.

http://www.mediaobsessed.com

Paul Levinson said...

It was heartbreaking ... Kate looked older, powdered, as if part of her heart had been put in storage somewhere... next year should be great...

You have a really enjoyabe blog, by the way - thanks for coming by!

Anonymous said...

Fence-sitting review as usual - Jack (MFox) will be out of the series by this time next year. His movie career will go global and BadRobot Prod will kick him loose next May. Sawyer will be the Alpha-dude from here on out with Sayid, Jin and Hurley as his lieutenants. Juliet will be the Alpha-gal and Kate will drop to pig-slopper status.
Jab-T-Hut

Paul Levinson said...

anon - glad you're such a devoted follower of my fence-sitting :)

Anonymous said...

Hi Paul,
What an excellent finale indeed!
I felt the same way when we first saw Jack in the opening sequence. My first thought was "alternate dimension" expecting to see the plane crash (as per Naomi's depiction, but aware that the pilots announcement was that they were coming in to land at LAX...) then when things carried on, they actually pretty thoroughly convinced me we were just seeing Jack fall to bits before his run in with the island. Then, by the time we got to the final part of the "flash back" I knew something huge was up...and as that car pulled up I was out loud guessing as to who was going to get out of the car (still thinking we were seeing the past, and admittedly having the thought: "It's all about the inexplicable coincidences, and this is going to be the most telling one of all!") Well obviously the reveal was telling, but I just got even more of a surprise!
What an excellent end to an eventually fine season!
Can't wait for more....

Anonymous said...

"Ben had a really crucial, excellent role tonight, too - the inveterate liar indeed was lying when he claimed to have ordered Sayid, Jin, and Bernard's deaths"

Was Ben really lying? It sounded to me like Tom and his cronies had disobeyed Ben's order.

Anonymous said...

Ben had a really crucial, excellent role tonight, too - the inveterate liar indeed was lying when he claimed to have ordered Sayid, Jin, and Bernard's deaths - and indicating, when Jack and Ben heard the shots on the phone that the three had been killed - but Ben seemed to be telling the truth about Naomi.

Minor quibble: Ben did not lie about this. Clearly the remaining Others disobeyed him and made the choice not to kill the 3 on their own. The last several episodes were about Ben losing control of his group as his web of lies unravels. Mikhail was still following orders, but Tom had his doubts.

Anonymous said...

Cool review, but I disagree with what you said about it being clear that Jack's dad is dead. Why would he say "Get my father here and if I'm drunker than him, then you can fire me." Who talks like that about dead people?? So either:

a)He's come back to life somehow;

b)The writers cheated, writing that line in order to fool us into believing that the whole thing was just a flashback (which worked with me);

I think b is the more likely option here, which sucks.

Also, was I the only one that thought Charlie's death was, in one word, unnecessary and therefore quite stupid? He had already pressed the button, which was the main reason he'd gone down to the Looking Glass in the first place (to get everyone rescued). He could've just opened the door and left. It would've taken ages for the whole thing to flood.

Yeah, maybe he didn't want to change anything in case that affected everyone else being rescued.

BUT in a previous episode, he didn't die with Rousseau's trap like he was supposed to, but they still managed to find Naomi.

It just wasn't a good enough reason. I feel cheated really, and I didn't even like Charlie that much.

Jana said...

I think this was the best finale so far. My thoughts are here.

Anonymous said...

Ben did not lie about this. Clearly the remaining Others disobeyed him and made the choice not to kill the 3 on their own. The last several episodes were about Ben losing control of his group as his web of lies unravels. Mikhail was still following orders, but Tom had his doubts.

The remaining Others DID NOT disobey Ben. Yes, Tom had his
doubts, he wanted to kill them, contrary to Ben's orders (only shoot the sand). Watch the episode again and you'll see.

Pappy said...

Ben did not lie about this. Clearly the remaining Others disobeyed him and made the choice not to kill the 3 on their own. The last several episodes were about Ben losing control of his group as his web of lies unravels. Mikhail was still following orders, but Tom had his doubts.

My roommate and I debated this (we even went back and watched Tom and the other guy chatting a few times). I remain convinced that the other guy said 'it was an order... we did what we were supposed to do', and Tom says 'bah... Ben is nuts... we should have killed them'. I really don't see how to see this any other way. My roomy disagrees and thinks Ben ordered them killed. Dunno.

dawn said...

I think Charlie's death was needed to furfill Desmonds prophecys. I also want to know who was in the coffin. Not a friend or relative!! Maybe Ben. I actually was sad to think Jack would be so screwed up in the future. I hate that we have to wait 8 months. Well I guess we will soon be on to Dexter. Thanks for the review

Anonymous said...

Yeah, I thought, too that something was different when I saw the openening scene. And when Jack pulled out the phone to call Kate I was thinking: "Oh man, the people from Lost are morons. That phone didn't exist a few years ago" but I would've never gotten the idea that it was a flashforward. Not even when the car pulled out and it was kate coming out of the car. I gave me creeps because to me that meant that lost isn't going to have an happy end. They are going to get off the island but be broken, realizing that they made a mistake and wanting to go back.

Once I read a theorie on the internet where the guys said that he thinks Lost is based on a book about a man who accidentally got to
a place where he struggeled to get away from and eventually manage but then realize that this was the place where he was truly happy and spending the rest of his life trying find that place. This flashforward would prove his theories right.

Paul Levinson said...

Great comments, folks.

About Tom: I'll look at the finale again soon - but, at this point, I'm with Pappy (my wife, who doesn't always agree with me, agrees on this). When we saw the scene in real time, it looked as if Tom was grousing that they should have disobeyed Ben's orders, and not fired in the sand ...

This also gives Sawyer a little more motivation for killing Tom (though he really had enough, already).

Jack's father: I think Jack was just using his father's name in Jack's desperate attempt to get the drugs. And Jack backed off of this pretty quickly when he was called on it...

Cool review, Jana, thanks.

I'll be posting more about some of these and other Lost questions ... great finale!

Anonymous said...

But if naomi wasn't on penny's boat, how comes she was carrying a picture of desmond and penny with her.
And how comes that as soon as charlie pulls the switch penny is immediately contacting him,
so many questions so lil answers
thank god i love that show :p

Paul Levinson said...

Ok, I just watched the 2-hour finale again - wonderful! - just as good as the first time! That finale is a masterpiece.

But several points I'm now 100% certain of:

1. Tom was indeed complaining to the two other Others on the beach that they should have disobeyed Ben's orders, and not fired into the sand as Ben had ordered. Meaning: Ben was lying to Jack when he said, earlier, that he had ordered his people to kill the three hostages.

2. I think I see a better motivation for Charlie: Desmond is running towards Charlie's room, wanting to talk to Penny. Charlie sees Mikhail outside in the water with the grenade, and locks the door to save Desmond from coming into the room, and being drowned there with Charlie when the grenade explodes.

To anon: Penny probably got the picture, and knew about Desmond, because her people had been in some kind of contact with Penny.

Great series!!

Anonymous said...

Season 4 Theory
Where does Season 4 go?
I suspect the season 4 opener to have some sudden, unexpected role reversals.
Putting this finale into its proper context, there are some things that have occurred to me that no one else has pointed out. First of all, the episodes follow the format of island stories coupled with backstories, and the backstories always relate directly to what is going on on the island. At the very end of the finale, Jack says to Kate, "We made a mistake." However, because it occurs immediately after the phone call to the freighter, I suspect that the phone call was the mistake. (We cannot tell whether Ben is telling the truth, a half-truth or a complete fiction, all we know is he is serving his own immediate self-interest.) Recalling that this show has a relationship to Alias, I suspect that the occupants of the freighter become the "new enemy" for season 4, causing an uneasy alliance between the Losties and the Others in a fight for survival (and in the process, turning the entire plot on its head in classic Alias fashion). The identity of the new enemy has something to do with Mittlewerk/Widmore/Paik, the backstory told through the Lost Experience.

Anonymous said...

GREAT season finale!!! Gonna make it hard to wait until Feb.
Any ideas who was in the coffin at the funeral home Jack visited in the flashforward that no one showed up for the viewinig? Perhaps Ben????

Karen said...

Excellent review - thanks! I'll bookmark your site.

I noticed a theme that ran through the episode: "Going back," which I think translates basically into a theme of self-sacrifice.

Kate tells Sawyer she wants to go back when Sayid, Jin and Bernard don't catch up to the group. Sawyer responds contemptuously, "Yeah, there'll always be somebody to go back for, Kate." (foreshadowing much?)

Later, however, it is Sawyer himself who decides to go back (he does still have a conscience!), along with Juliet, who feels a moral obligation to the group, "You don't have to do that," Jack says. "Yeah, I really kind of do," she replies.

Still later, Jack explains to Kate that Sawyer was protecting her when he refused to let her go back with him, "just like I told you not to come back for me."

Of course, in the flash-forward, Jack is the one arguing that they must go back, make amends, stop lying and put to rights whatever sins they've committed in getting off the island.

This time, it's Kate who's reluctant. Perhaps her odd, powdered-over look and detached attitude reflect her lost moral compass since she's returned?

Anyway, maybe I'm overthinking but I found that intriguing.

Anonymous said...

"I think we've seen the last of the flashbacks, or close to it. I predict some of our castaways will get off the island - certainly Claire and her baby - and others (like Charlie) will remain. And next year, rather than the flashbacks (which were getting a little boring, anyway), we'll see the adventures of the remaining castaways and The Others and who knows who else on the island, and the attempt of those off the island to save them. The off-island story, in the present, will replace the flashbacks."

I actually think that now the 'present' will form the basis of the show, and the flashbacks will take us back to the island and what happened post phone call. An interesting way to slowly unravel the truth, to leave a huge number of unanswered questions, and to keep the original format of the show. All in true lost style!

Paul Levinson said...

jaybird - interesting analysis about the mistake being about the phone call, but I still think Jack's referring to leaving island. That was the central theme of the finale. Still, if you're right, I'll give you credit next year for an incredibly good call :)

Lost and Alias now do share something crucially important in common in their narratives - I'm going to write more about this soon - but it's indeed reinventing the premise of the series in the middle of the series, a daring, brilliant move. See my Night That Alias Reinvented Itself for more about Alias...

anon - yeah, could be Ben - but in the crumpled newspaper article it looks as if the first letter of first name is "J" ... I started a discussion about this important question at Who's in the Coffin?

Paul Levinson said...

Karen - good pick up on the "going back" theme - I like that!

anon - agreed. I do think the present(or future, from the perspective of the island in the last scene) will form the new basis of the show (that's pretty much what was I stumbling towards in my review last week)...

Anonymous said...

Great finale. I think Jack and Kate may have left other people behind on the island, with the intention of returning to save the others. This may explain Jack's guilt, the maps trying to find the location of the island, and his complete meltdown. We all know Jack's obsession with saving everyone and fixing everything. He may have been suicidal over this, and the icing on the cake is the suicide of one of the group who left the island with them. I think it's Juliet. The newspaper clipping may be misleading. It could say "man found dead body", instead of "man found dead".

Karen said...

Thanks, Paul! I'm in awe that you managed to call that flashforward twist accurately ahead of time. That really took most of us (who don't read spoilers) by surprise.

I didn't realize what was happening until the final scene, when Jack pulled up to the end of the runway in his car, and my son suddenly figured it out. Sure enough, when Kate stepped out of the other car, I realized he was right. ;-)

Never did I think that the Lost producers would go the way of fanfiction! But actually I think their decision was brilliant.

I'm glad I found this site. In the past, what I've realized is that there are jillions of places online to discuss Lost, but very few where there's some nuanced, intelligent conversation taking place.

Anonymous said...

Paul-This is just an idea and I wondered what you thought about it.

After Lockes near death experience being shot by Ben do you think he could be having "flashes" into the future like Desmond?

I was wondering if its possible that the flash-forwards we were seeing of Jack were visions that Locke was having. When Locke stabbed Naomi he said "Jack- your NOT supposed to do this."

It would make sense to me if he saw Jacks future and tried to warn him not to make the call for the rescue. Or maybe Walt saw the future and was trying to encourage Locke to change Jacks mind.

Lastly, in season 4 Locke may get through to Jack...thus potentialy changing his dismal, grim future to something brighter.

I personally wont be satisfied if Lost ends with Jack suicidal. I am not sure about this theory, in fact I doubt Im right, but It gives me some hope that maybe Jack can make some different choices and possibly change his future.

Paul Levinson said...

Pixel - Yeah, I think Jack and Kate definitely left people on the island. Certainly if they left very quickly after that phone call - if a helicopter swooped them up, with a promise to get the rest of the castaways - then Sayid, Bernard, Jin, Sawyer, and Juliet could have been left on the island, since they were still back on the beach...

I also think Juliet is a good possibility for who's in the casket - but the newspaper is still a problem. "Man found dead body..." is an awkward construction.... (but, I grant you, still possible)...

Paul Levinson said...

Karen, you're very welcome - I'm glad you found your way here. (Everyone else - good to have your comments here in Infinite Regress, too...)

I never ever read spoilers ... life's too short :) ... In fact, I not only don't read spoilers, but I wish they weren't out there, because they can weaken the impact of good, old-fashioned predictions... :)

I don't know how the flashback to flashforward switch came to me ... I just felt, when I was watching the Greatest Hits episode (a wonderful episode, too) ... that there was not much more we can learn in the flashbacks (Charlie's only worked because of the list - a really nice touch).

The lighting in the Los Angeles part of the finale was darker then usual ... everything felt subtley different ... and, then, yeah,
that was such a powerful scene when Kate stepped out of the car...

Paul Levinson said...

Hey, Elizabeth - yeah, I definitely think Locke could have Desmond-esque flashes ...

Locke is of course a really key character - he's more in synch with than island than any of the castaways (with the possible exception of Claire's baby - who cried when Charlie died)...

And I think you are the most right about Locke getting through to Jack, after Jack leaves the island...

Another point that supports Locke in coffin, though I hope not.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your comments Paul.
Im glad to know you think its possible that Locke may have some flashes too.

Do you think there is any way Locke could get through to Jack "before" Jack leaves the island???

Maybe at the start of Season 4 Jack will have an opportunity to leave with Naomis people...(causing future Jack great pain)...or maybe Locke can get through to him and he WONT leave with them therefore changing his future.

I do anticipate their rescue...I dont have any doubt about that...but maybe Jack is supposed to be "rescued" at a later time, and not this early on in the show.

Maybe those flashes show us what will happen to Jack if he leaves with Naomis crew. Which would mean that if he doesnt leave with them "jacks future" we saw last wednesday would never happen for him. (which I think would be great)

I hope I explained that well. Its complicated to type out my thoughts on this.

Besides Locke and Claires baby (i noticed the crying too) I think Walt is another character that is One with the Island.

Paul Levinson said...

You explained it very well, Elizabeth (and it is hard to write what you're sensing - one of the best things about Lost is that it's as much intuitive as strictly logical).

I think anything's possible, and, sure, Locke could get through to Jack before he leaves the island, which would change the future we saw on the finale -

But, what we saw on the finale was so extraordinary, I have a feeling the producers aren't likely to change it - at least, not easily...

So I think we'll first see Jack and Kate and who knows who else get off the island ... and maybe, somehow, Locke will get through to Jack after that ...

Or, what we saw on the finale is Jack has realized that Locke was right, and he needs to get back to the island...

Walt is definitely also one of the keys ... he had powers before he even arrived on the island...

Karen said...

never ever read spoilers ... life's too short :) ... In fact, I not only don't read spoilers, but I wish they weren't out there, because they can weaken the impact of good, old-fashioned predictions... :)

Probably 10 years ago now I was really into the TV show "ER." I read every spoiler. Eventually someone who worked in a casting office started posting crucial scenes from upcoming scripts, so by the time the episodes aired it was totally anticlimatic.

Completely ruined my enjoyment of the show and cured me of spoilers forever. And of course ER was nothing like Lost, where the huge surprises are central to the fun.

I don't know how the flashback to flashforward switch came to me ... I just felt, when I was watching the Greatest Hits episode (a wonderful episode, too) ... that there was not much more we can learn in the flashbacks (Charlie's only worked because of the list - a really nice touch).

Yup. I'd thought of that too, when they announced three more seasons. I wondered how they'd find more back story to continue to use. I just figured maybe they planned to introduce a bunch of new characters, like they've done before. But that would've really sucked, I think.

The lighting in the Los Angeles part of the finale was darker then usual ... everything felt subtley different ... and, then, yeah,
that was such a powerful scene when Kate stepped out of the car...


Yes, you're totally right. And I even saw the cell phone and thought - wow, this can't have been very long ago, that's a new phone! (Duh!)

The beauty of it is that tptb took a big risk, went way outside the box and I think (hope) it'll pay off for them. I really respect people - particularly in TV - who take creative leaps like this. They rock.

Karen said...

But, what we saw on the finale was so extraordinary, I have a feeling the producers aren't likely to change it - at least, not easily...

Yeah, I agree with you here. They have said that they are giving us "pieces of a big puzzle" that they will eventually fill in so it all makes sense. The story is already so big and complex, that if they were to start developing alternate realities it would get totally out of control.

That said, I don't think it's impossible that there are mysteries on the island that will be shown to be supernatural in the long run. I just don't think they're going to give us glimpses into the future that wind up being untrue.

Paul Levinson said...

The beauty of it is that tptb took a big risk, went way outside the box and I think (hope) it'll pay off for them. I really respect people - particularly in TV - who take creative leaps like this. They rock.

Agree completely, Karen - well said!

If you have a chance - and have seen Alias - take a look at my Night That Alias Reinvented Itself - JAbrams took a brilliant, extraordinary risk there, too.

I always take risks in my novels - sometimes they work, sometimes not (actually, in my mind, they all work - it's the critics who sometimes disagree :) But it's no fun creating anything if you don't push the envelope, bend the structure, flirt with bursting the genre.

It's good that viewers and readers like you are fans of that.

I don't think it's impossible that there are mysteries on the island that will be shown to be supernatural in the long run. I just don't think they're going to give us glimpses into the future that wind up being untrue.

I agree with this completely, too. I don't think anything we see in the future will turn out false. And there are still some important mysteries left on the island - black smoke, incredible healing for some people (Locke, Ben, Rose) but not others (Shannon and Boone), etc. Some of that could indeed be supernatural...

Karen said...

If you have a chance - and have seen Alias - take a look at my Night That Alias Reinvented Itself - JAbrams took a brilliant, extraordinary risk there, too.

Yes! I remember that episode very well - nice analysis. I admire JJ Abrams very much. Another favorite of mine is Joss Whedon. If you're not a fan of his work already, I highly recommend anything he's been involved in (Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Serenity).

This Lost twist also put me in mind of the infamous S2 finale of Battlestar Galactica, which I see you've written about also. That was also unexpected and risky (maybe not quite at the level of Lost last week) but it paid off by setting up some of the best episodes of TV ever.

I always take risks in my novels - sometimes they work, sometimes not (actually, in my mind, they all work - it's the critics who sometimes disagree :) But it's no fun creating anything if you don't push the envelope, bend the structure, flirt with bursting the genre.

Wow - I just got around to reading your CV. Very impressive! I will have to get one of your novels. Is there any one in particular that's best to start with?

I'm a writer also btw, in fact I see we've written for some of the same publications. I have to write about things like business and politics - I don't get to write about fun things like pop culture, more's the pity. ;-)

Paul Levinson said...

I highly recommend anything he's been involved in (Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Serenity).

I saw Serenity and really liked it. The others slipped by me (and I know I should definitely get Firefly if I enjoyed Serenity). I'll catch up with all of them some summer - maybe even, in part, in this one.

This Lost twist also put me in mind of the infamous S2 finale of Battlestar Galactica, which I see you've written about also. That was also unexpected and risky (maybe not quite at the level of Lost last week) but it paid off by setting up some of the best episodes of TV ever.

Yes, it paid off magnificently with the early Fall episodes. The BSG finale this year was fine, too. I'm looking forward to next January.

I will have to get one of your novels. Is there any one in particular that's best to start with?

I love those kinds of questions... I'd say The Plot to Save Socrates first choice and The Silk Code second, Borrowed Tides third ... three very different novels, but all three take wild risks in storyline and narrative structure...

I'm a writer also btw, in fact I see we've written for some of the same publications. I have to write about things like business and politics - I don't get to write about fun things like pop culture, more's the pity. ;-)

You should write about popular culture - start a blog - I'd read it - you're a fine writer (and perceptive).

Tell me about your other publications. Or, if you prefer, e-mail me any time (e-mail on the right panel)...

Anonymous said...

Paul,
Only just got around to seeing the finale, and am still processing it. As usual, love your comments, and wish I could put my own thoughts into such succinct order, but there are other things I need to be doing at the moment, and tapping into Lost fandom right now will burn up what's left of the long weekend!

A couple of points -
1) Although I am fully prepared to eat my words when it turns out I'm wrong, I don't think the current structure of Flashbacks except sometimes Flashbacks with a twist are going to change all that much. And for the sake of later DVD rewatching, I hope they don't. The format is addictive. But as exciting as seeing a twist on the structure in this finale was, I don't think the flash-forward is providing anything more than some pretty badass foreshadowing, in the same way as the (still unique) flash to Penny off the island at the end of the last season provided. That device told us "there IS an outside world, and they are looking for you... and making progress", and this one tells us "they will get off the island eventually", and provides the added hook for an audience to stick around and see how it happens.

(I don't think it's a coincidence that the creators have finally announced a finite, short seasoned run now... I think the next three seasons may have a fairly solid structure.)

But the flashbacks, while the temptation has always been to take them as a literal "memory" or "vision", have very seldom been defined as such... except in the case of Desmond's recent "time-jumping" escapades, and the odd more literal use of them, they've seemed to be basically a narrative device, experienced by the audience to give them insight into what the character is going through, and how they got here, rather then a literal memory... very few people have total recall, after all, and I'm pretty sure we've had occassions in those flashbacks where we have seen things happening that the characters don't appear to actually be remembering (such as seeing Locke in the background of airport sequences in his wheelchair).

This isn't to dismiss your idea that the flashbacks are integral to what happens in the series... in fact, I think it supports it, it just doesn't make it so literal: we are seeing that these lives and events are interlocked at a level that the characters living them don't. It's a narrative device whose time as a major binding element of a tv series has come... since Tarantino's early movies made the non-linear timeline part of the mainstream, we've seen it toyed with in many other movies, and occassionally other shows will play with the structure to create extra tension, but Lost is an incredibly ambitious attempt at doing the same.

Bear in mind, I don't think that you've suggested that the flash forwards/backs are literally and consistently being experienced as memory/vision in-show, but many people are, here and elsewhere... in a way, it's another way in which Lost is incredibly good at what it does: The show has never told the audience what those sequences mean... we just assume .what they are based on past experience. It's awesome misdirection. (For some reason, I just got a desperate urge to tell everyone to go watch The Prestige...) Like Benry, the creators show us key facts that can be interpreted a number of different ways, but put them out there in a way that we will almost certainly interpret down the garden path. Unlike Benry, they don't often lie... I think the only flash that can't be taken as a definitive "this has or will happen at some point" certainty has been Desmond's weird-as-fuck non-sequential-living episode.

2) I don't think anything in that final episode gave the specific imprssion that any of the Oceanic survivors get off the island in the immediate future. All Desmond saw was Claire and baby getting on a chopper... Because up till now, a helicopter was an unusual element on the island, he assumed that that meant rescue, but as the episode showed, that isn't neccessarily the case. When we first heard about the submarine, it was easy to assume that getting onto the submarine was all that our heroes had to do to get away... but that wasn't the case. And the world of the show keeps expanding... the first occupied itself with the beach and the island, and the bunkers were just a notional idea, like "escape", that existed behind impenetrable doorways, only a small window of glass giving any insight into what was beyond. The second season expanded the world to the various Dharma bunkers... we knew that there was another space beyond that... implied by Dharma's existence, and also by the increasing evidence of the Other's mean version of society and civilisation. In that setting, Ben was our window into the other spaces.
The third season has expanded the world of the show again, to the society of the Others, to the existence of a submarine, of underwater bases, and a whole other island... Each time, it seems like the next space that opens up to them will be "the way home", and this season, it looked like the submarine was our route into that world. Then the prophecied woman falling from the sky. Then her weird adapted iPhone, providing a window or conduit to escape. But I think we may have just seen the world expand another layer, out to the boat... and yet another group of people who know more about what's going on then our favourite survivors...

Someone else suggested that the next season is still focussed on the island, with the people on the boat as the new "Others". My instinct says that that person was right, and that the flash-forward was simply a piece of foreshadowing... think about it: along with all the other things we've been desperate to find out about, now we're desperate to know who was in the coffin, how the Losties got off the island, and who didn't make it. That's all too much intrigue to dismiss in a two or three episode season-opener...

3) Although the last few episodes have seemed to revel in having people come back from the dead, I have a horrible feeling that Charlie is gone for good. I think it's horrible mainly because, like another of your commenters, it seemed so ultimately senseless... He had loads of time to get out of the room, even before the grenade went off. Although Desmond might have wanted to talk to Penny, I suspect that Charlie would have been able to quickly talk him out of it... what with the grenade and all. I think that if there's a reasoning behind what Charlie did, it can only have been that Desmond's visions had so completely convinced him that he was going to die, that he'd kind of come to terms with it. If he hadn't known about the premonition, I think he would have tried harder to survive.
I wasn't expecting it to make me so sad, to be honest, but it did.
However, I think Mikhail is probably not dead. It's kind of becoming a running joke that he can't be killed by conventional means... kind of like Ozzy Osbourne!
But this leads me onto:

4) I've been proclaiming to anyone unfortunate enough to be in range that the island has or will somehow bring Jack's father back to life since that episode where Jack found the coffin, if I recall correctly still closed (indicating that it hadn't been thrown open by the crash), with no sign of a corpse in it. It's easy to dismiss Jack's visions of his father running around, but that empty coffin speaks volumes. And his father has been almost as prominent a character as one of the actual survivors.
So imagine my surprise when throughout the last episode, my housemate and I were taking Jack's reference to his father in the flash as an indication of where we were in time, and then thought that there was some hideous plothole when it turned out that it was the future! It took me a full hour to remember that I never believed that Jack's father had stayed dead in the first place.
But to vindicate your readers that suggested that Jack's father was mentioned as alive in the episode, Jack actually refers to him twice: Once in the pharmacy (and you're quite right... he does back out of that pretty quickly, but I guessed that that was because he'd faked the signature and was pissed off that he'd been called on it) and later on in the hospital, talking to his boss. Just watched the scene again, where he tells the guy that he should go get Jack's father down there, and if he was more drunk then Jack etc etc, and it actually looks like the chap is considering going and finding Jack's father. It doesn't look like he's just heard someone state that someone that he knows is dead is alive.
Course, that's interpretation... But I don't think Jack is lying. He may be delusional, though!

5) The person in the coffin... whoever it is - Although Kate cared less about them then Jack did, when Jack was asked if he was "friend or family" he was fairly clear that he was neither. My thinking is that if it is someone that we've already met, it's probably Ben. It was a small-ass coffin, after all...

6) Jack and Kate's mistake. I think the showrunners want us to consider for a minute that it is the phone-call that Jack makes that is the mistake, but I think he's talking about leaving the island full-stop. It's fairly low-level misdirection work putting the two events so close together, but with Charlie's final discovery, Benry's probable truths (and have you ever seen the guy actually look so edgy?) and Locke's unspoken reasons for keeping Jack from using the phone, I think it's going to turn out that the people on the boat are bad people that aren't going to rescue them. The chap who answered Jack's call seemed utterly confused to be speaking to anyone other than parachute girl, even as Jack started to explain who he was. Further, Mikhail, who isn't quite the liar that Benry is, had already told them that she wasn't who she said she was. And isn't it possible that the people on the boat really did believe that the plane went down with all passengers aboard?
Instead, I think that the show has shown fairly conclusive that off the island, Jack is a screw-up, or at the very least that his life is a screw-up... and in a very real sense, his life on the island has more meaning then his life off it. Early on, he is shown as the opposite number of Locke, and although I never thought it at the time, maybe their relationship is even more entangled then previously indicated. Locke wants to stay on the island, Jack wants to get off the island. Locke wants to stay, because off the island he is physically crippled, while on the island he isn't. But off the island, Jack is an emotional cripple... like Locke, he's crippled by his relationship with his father.
In this episode, Benry asked Jack why he wanted to get off the island, and it was a question that, if you bundled all of Jack's flashbacks together, we as an audience would also have to ask. He wants to because he thinks he should, and because he's stubborn, but Ben is right: he doesn't have much to go back to. Further, I don't think it's by accident that Ben asks him it then, and by the end of the episode we see Jack regretting the decision to leave. I don't think there is any indication that they left anyone behind... just that life in "the world" isn't quite that good...

And there you go. That's what happens when you say that you're not going to say a lot, but then sit down anyway. Cold tea, unfed dog, hundreds of words down. And the horrible thing is, I could say more about this awesome finale.

Sheesh.

Paul Levinson said...

Great post, Nicolas!! (And good tie-in with Tarantino)...

Just one brief point now, with more to come later (maybe, for some parts, months from now...:)

I'll take a look at those two Jack-and-his-father scenes again, but my recollection is that the other doc really didn't respond one way or another when Jack mentioned his father, and if anything was humoring Jack, and had no intention of going upstairs.

And, indeed, it also felt to me as if Jack was using his father's drinking as a figurative comparison - as anyone might in his situation (being challenged about drinking, in the very place where his father showed up drunk)...

On the other hand - and Lost has more hands than an octopus - it's always a mistake to just throw out evidence because it contradicts a strongly held theory....

But, I'd say it's better than 90% likely that Jack's father is dead (whatever that 90% means...)

Karen said...

I saw Serenity and really liked it. The others slipped by me (and I know I should definitely get Firefly if I enjoyed Serenity). I'll catch up with all of them some summer - maybe even, in part, in this one.

I would definitely recommend starting with Firefly if you liked Serenity. It's only - what - 11 or 12 episodes (I think?) so it's extremely accessible. And you'll already be familiar with the genre-bending premise: a space Western, where the characters sometimes babble Chinese in a sci-fi future with no aliens. ;-)

Fox treated this incredible series terribly - including cancelling it just as it was building a dedicated fan base. I think the only risk for you in watching it will be the angst of realizing it's over way too soon - and the likelihood that you'll turn into a Whedon fan and have to watch all the other stuff he's done!

Thanks for the novel recommendations. I'm looking for some summer reading, so I'll add those to my list.

You should write about popular culture - start a blog - I'd read it - you're a fine writer (and perceptive).

Thank you! Unfortunately the paid gigs take up all my time, and then some. But maybe someday.

Tell me about your other publications. Or, if you prefer, e-mail me any time (e-mail on the right panel)...

I'll do that.

Paul Levinson said...

Karen - you talked me into it! (Firefly)...

Karen said...

Karen - you talked me into it! (Firefly)...

Cool - I think you'll love it. You do have to give it a chance, because it is different, but if you reserve judgment until you've seen 2 or 3 episodes, you'll be fine.

At least on the DVDs, the episodes are set up in the proper order. One of the unbelievably stupid things Fox did in broadcasting it was to show the first few episodes completely out of order, so it was really tough to sort out what was happening. Ugh.

The commentary tracks are great also, particularly any done by Joss himself.

Paul Levinson said...

You know, I heard about Fox messing up the order - NBC, if I'm not mistaken, got the sequences out of order in a two-hour made-for-tv movie a decade or so ago...

Another example of something book publishers often seem to excel in, too: torpedoing a project once it's launched. Whether passive aggression, just plain lameness, or who knows - it happens all the time...

But you've definitely got me looking forward to Firefly now ... I'll get the DVD and watch it in June...

Karen said...

Another example of something book publishers often seem to excel in, too: torpedoing a project once it's launched. Whether passive aggression, just plain lameness, or who knows - it happens all the time...

Yup. In this case it was cold feet, I think. They gave him something like one weekend's notice that they were picking a later (more action-oriented) episode to run as the "pilot" - and he had to try and write all the (very substantial) set up and backstory into that episode, when they already had a perfectly good two-hour pilot ready to go!

You'll see what I'm talking about when you watch the DVD, and thankfully you'll see that two-hour pilot at the beginning, where it was meant to go.

But you've definitely got me looking forward to Firefly now ... I'll get the DVD and watch it in June...

Cool. Let me know what you think of it. I may have to rewatch the series myself now that Lost is on hiatus ... not that I'm looking for an excuse or anything! ;-)

Anonymous said...

Oh, is anyone else disappointed that we didn't see the Hurley Bird in this finale? Or will we see that when we get a flashback in season 4 of what happened to Hurley after Sawyer was very rude to him in the series 3 finale...?

Anonymous said...

I think it is Ben in the coffin.
Or Jack Himself.
Think About It. He wants to die after the funeral.
He had no friends before the island.
He has no friends after..
That`s what Ben said too.

x said...

Charlie will live..
remember those visions where he was playing the guitar in a London street, and Desmond saw him and tried to remind him of who he was?

Paul Levinson said...

Welcome to Infinite Regress, Omar...

I think the scenes you mention are flashbacks, though - not Desmond's flashes of the future - so, alas, they wouldn't say anything about Charlie surviving...

Anonymous said...

I think it the final of season3 would have been a great end. It would have left a great space of fantasy for the viewer. But i've read somewhere that the writers said there was nothing paranormal happening in the show, so I'm really excited how they explain the black smoke, ice bears,Jacob etc..
And Who is that guy which seems to be a servent of Ben, but he was before Ben on the island (reffering to the episode where you see little Ben getting on the Island.He ran in the jungle and bumbed in to that guy.How comes that he listens to Ben...)

One more thing: This is the best drama series I've watched in ages : good actors , humor , excitement, touching flashbacks.
The show is in one word : genius

Anonymous said...

since the guy at the funeral said that Jack was the only 1 who showed up, I do quess that guy who is in the coffin has no close friends/familly. brings my thoughts to either James or John at the moment. And to be honest I hope its neither of them.

rimvis said...

I just loved the season finale. More questions than answers but that's usual for lost. Can't wait for the next season to begin!

rimvis
http://www.gamesterstalk.com

Anonymous said...

I belive that Jacob has played a roll through out the serries and has visited the crew via their visions. He comes to them as people they would want to see and feel comfortable with [locke follows both walt and boone - Jack follows his dad - Hurley follows vincent] - maybe this is why is was invisible to Locke but not to Ben while they where in the cabin.

The point is that Jacob has been helping the gang from the begining, and led him to directly conversing with Locke when he said "help me"

This is my main focus of the plot, and maybe Jack learns his real name somewhere along the line, and maybe its jacob that brings Kate and Jack back from the island. This would also comfirm why Kate doesnt care about Jacob in the coffin.

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